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mrgan
    iOS 7 beta 3 switches the system body font from Helvetica Neue Light to Helvetica Neue Regular. I love to say I told you so :)
    There are 12 new posts
    marco
      @mrgan Really? Even without that Accessibility text-weight setting? That’s huge if so. (mine’s downloading very slowly)
      mrgan
        @marco Yup. After I booted up, everything looked bold to me, because I had turned that setting on previously. Turned it off, and ahhhh, sweet Regular. I bet Ive was embarrassed by Spiekermann’s feedback :)
        savaran
          @mrgan sigh. Wish I could just pick a font, I may be a minority but I much prefer the light fonts
          mrgan
            @savaran *recoils in horror*
            juri
              @mrgan That has to be the biggest design change Apple has done during beta period.
              mrgan
                @juri Indeed. And good for them. Good for us, too!
                myfreeweb
                  @mrgan @sdw fuck! I really prefer the light one
                  mrgan
                    @myfreeweb @sdw *holds up a crucifix, mutters a prayer fearfully*
                    simplyarjen
                      @mrgan I guess I'll have to go and be sad now.
                      aaronstanley
                        @mrgan we know you do. We know.
                        andreasmuller
                          @mrgan @monkeydom Hahaha. They Listen to the audience.
                          quinn
                            @mrgan Actually preferred the light. I know, I know.
                            droob
                              @mrgan No no no Jony is just afraid of change
                              squozen
                                @mrgan @siracusa that GIF that Cabel made is useful. Seems I like the lighter typeface better, at least on the settings screen.
                                aleck
                                  @mrgan another interesting change in beta3: “increase contrast” set to ON turns translucency off in NC and CC @marco Image [photos.app.net]
                                  aleck
                                    @mrgan @marco wow, when it’s OFF things can get really unreadable. That white text color will probably go away next (This was in Riposte with browser view open, @imore article) Image [photos.app.net]
                                    andreasmuller
                                      @quinn @mrgan After a few days with em the light font, the one in beta 3 shows fat!
                                      chriscoonradt
                                        @mrgan @marco my issue/question with that: where in the OS did you ever see a full “carpet” of text in ultralight? The notes app? Maybe? Can’t think of anywhere else.
                                        mrgan
                                          @chriscoonradt @marco Uh… Messages? Mail? Every app that displays text, once it switches to semantic text? What do you use your iPhone for? :)
                                          chriscoonradt
                                            @mrgan Was mail in Ultralight? Ah…. I use Mailbox. And messages are short snippets anyway so I never got that “carpet on a white background” feel.
                                            mrgan
                                              @chriscoonradt Almost nothing was set in UltraLight (just the lock screen clock and a few other things). Absolutely all other body copy was set in Light, which is still too… light.
                                              mrgan
                                                @chriscoonradt If you don’t read paragraphs of text on your phone, then you and I clearly use our phones for different things.
                                                chriscoonradt
                                                  @mrgan I really like it actually. Things like this seem to go against the aesthetic: https://photos.app.net/7484026/1
                                                  chriscoonradt
                                                    @mrgan either the apps I use didn’t reflect the change (Instapaper springs to mind) or it just *really* didn’t bother me.
                                                    marco
                                                      @mrgan @chriscoonradt Yeah, Mail was probably the one that annoyed me the most (screenfuls of body text). Messages was second place. Settings probably third.
                                                      mrgan
                                                        @jxpx777 Text described semantically, in terms of usage (“body”, “heading”) instead if specifying faces, weights, and sizes. This is the new directive.
                                                        mrgan
                                                          @chriscoonradt Right, Instapaper didn’t reflect it because it hasn’t been updated. If it followed Apple’s guidelines, it would.
                                                          dgh
                                                            @savaran @mrgan I’m with you. It looks old now. Changing a system font is no easy task. They would have planned this prior to launch and not had enough time to change it.
                                                            savaran
                                                              @dgh thing is, while I'll do regular font weights for user use, just to not force a side for them, but if I had my own preference I find the lighter the better for readability @mrgan
                                                              chriscoonradt
                                                                @marco @mrgan Interesting thought at the end of your footnote about Apple’s newfound willingness to change. Adapting to better compete against Google’s unemotional data-driven focus perhaps? http://j.mp/1ddtTRi
                                                                berezovsky
                                                                  @mrgan That's actually very exciting - Helvetica Neue Regular is much better readable.
                                                                  mrgan
                                                                    @chriscoonradt @marco I doubt that it’s an intentional change made with Google in mind. Keep this in mind: I’ve heard that Ive and Jobs had disagreed on software design for a while. With Jobs’ passing, new doors are open for old ideas and passions.
                                                                    mrgan
                                                                      @berezovsky Oh, no doubt. iOS 7 was easily the most widespread use of Light as a body face in history (and that’s not a good thing!)
                                                                      inferis
                                                                        @mrgan who says they won’t revert the change in a subsequent beta? :)
                                                                        exkclamation
                                                                          @mrgan @marco Spiekermann has never been a fan of Helvetica. (At least we don’t have to suffer through an interface full of FF Meta…)
                                                                          inferis
                                                                            @mrgan it would be even more awesome if they would do A/B testing. Half of the installs would get Ultralight, the other half Regular. :D
                                                                            mrgan
                                                                              @exkclamation I think Spiekermann can separate his feelings about Helvetica from the specifics of font weight, which is all he has discussed here. None of his Meta-line fonts were designed for screen. If he designed one for it, I’m sure it would be ace.
                                                                              mrgan
                                                                                @inferis Well, b1 kind of did that with the Accessibility setting to up the weight. I lasted a week with the wispy fonts, then emboldened them. So much better.
                                                                                inferis
                                                                                  @mrgan but that was your own choice. It would be interesting to see how “beta testers” would react to two similar but different visualisations without having a choice.
                                                                                  chriscoonradt
                                                                                    @mrgan Oh absolutely. Didn’t mean to say they had Google in mind, just reminded me of the “Google is getting better at design faster than Apple is getting better at web services” problem. Seems that Apple is getting better at being Google in a good way.
                                                                                    smileykeith
                                                                                      @mrgan I thought so, not sure how someone could have read that and said “yea that looks right!”
                                                                                      mrgan
                                                                                        @chriscoonradt Yeah, in a small way. They still haven’t really figured out how to do services—here’s hoping…
                                                                                        chriscoonradt
                                                                                          @mrgan absolutely. Though I would still be somewhat okay with the pre-Android vision of Apple making great hardware and running services from partners who were good at it.
                                                                                          mrgan
                                                                                            @chriscoonradt Yup. But them days is over.
                                                                                            chriscoonradt
                                                                                              @mrgan Why can’t we all just get along? Oh, right. Deeply entrenched competing interests.
                                                                                              miamitechnews
                                                                                                @mrgan @marco Now if only developers would follow suit and stop using ridiculously small fonts in apps. Hopefully devs will support "Dynamic Type” and allow users to adjust the font size via "Text Size" option shown here in iOS7 http://ow.ly/mNHEx
                                                                                                mrgan
                                                                                                  @miamitechnews While this is a worthy goal, it’s also very difficult to make work with complex layouts. To make it possible, designs have to be simplified until they start looking like webpages. It’s a big trade-off.
                                                                                                  miamitechnews
                                                                                                    @mrgan Flipboard app does a great job at allowing users pick large fonts. Apps like Mailbox or Gmail do a terrible job. Who can read those tiny fonts? It makes no sense to have a large screen and then opt to use the smallest possible fonts.
                                                                                                    billsaysthis
                                                                                                      @mrgan @fahrni There goes Apple again using those durn funny names no regular Joe’s heard of. Or can say right!
                                                                                                      espiekermann
                                                                                                        @mrgan Most of my typefaces were designed before we read on screen. But I will repeat: if something was designed to work well under bad conditions on paper (small size, bad light, bad printing, low contrast, low resolution...), it’ll work well on screen.
                                                                                                        espiekermann
                                                                                                          @mrgan Meta actually works surprisingly well on screen. All my faces have been designed for tough conditions, making sure that one can distinguish between i, l, I, (try that with Helvetica) and other confusing shapes like 3, 8, S, B et al.
                                                                                                          espiekermann
                                                                                                            @mrgan Wait for the new Mozilla system fonts. They’re based on Meta (still Mozilla’s house face), but with the small screen in mind. We shipped the beta fonts yesterday.
                                                                                                            mrgan
                                                                                                              @espiekermann Excellent! Thanks for your reply!
                                                                                                              chriscoonradt
                                                                                                                @espiekermann @mrgan While that’s clearly true of retina resolutions, it’s well established that low-res screens have different restraints than low-res print.
                                                                                                                espiekermann
                                                                                                                  @chriscoonradt every substrate and technology has different restraints. I’m saying that designing type is always about restraints. Screens are just another.