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patrickrhone
    Current Thought Pattern: The reason we have any unemployment at all is because so many people have the idea that is is someone else's responsibility to give them paid work to do. I question this idea heavily.
    davmendels
      @patrickrhone I second that. Yet one problem, you realize, is that the majority is incapable of creating something. Or even creating themselves - and that’s the nugget in that line of thinking
      kdfrawg
        @patrickrhone @hawaiiboy I have been working for myself for 40 years. Not everyone is cut out for it.
        pamdavis
          @patrickrhone If the economy were such that a person could make a basic living by working 10-15 hours a week, we could have full employment. Right now the only living is made by overworking.
          danielgenser
            @patrickrhone The chasm between self-employment and FTE is too broad for many to stomach.
            danielgenser
              @patrickrhone I kinda wish there was a “bootstrapper school” option involved in state unemployment programs. If there were programs to help on the 6-12 month transition from FTE to self-employment, it would be huge.
              simongane
                @patrickrhone not that it’s always easy to find things to do for money. I do always wonder why estates w high unemployment are always so neglected. If you don’t have work, you could mend some gutters, or pick litter.
                xorbyte
                  @patrickrhone we could work to improve our societies beyond ‘work’, to the extent it’s not related to necessity. Le Guin’s “The Dispossessed” has an interesting take on that.
                  clew_less
                    @patrickrhone most believe what they have been told for years & think it's the only way. Also there are some that feel the world does owe them, just for existing.
                    justinlowery
                      @patrickrhone Couldn’t agree more. When you change your mindset to running your life as a business instead of expecting to work for one for all of it, you never depend on someone else fully again.
                      elliottpayne
                        @patrickrhone I think decoupling fte from health insurance is going move our society in that direction. Do you listen to @glennf's new disruptors podcast? Its all about the notion of sustainable, slow growth, value based enterprise. Its inevitable imo.
                        patrickrhone
                          @clew_less I think these are both sometimes true. But not always. I think there are plenty who want to but just don't know how.
                          ka
                            @xorbyte @patrickrhone Agree. Here is a paragraph from the last chapter of David Graeber’s “The Democracy Project” that is apt: http://cl.ly/OGx7
                            clew_less
                              @patrickrhone yeah, I agree. I was in a similar situation. But through digging on the internet & listening to the right sort of podcast I found out. BUT one has to make the effort. With the internet difficult for ignorance to be an excuse for people.
                              hawaiiboy
                                @kdfrawg @patrickrhone I'm a customer service freak, that has helped me to stay on task.
                                glennf
                                  @patrickrhone That's provocative and interesting. Usually, a statement like that is couched in terms of people being lazy. But I'm interesting in your formulation. I would argue capital is part of it. People without capital have only their labor.
                                  nickstellato
                                    I couldn't agree more. >> @patrickrhone: Current Thought Pattern: The reason we have any unemployment at all is because so many people have the idea that is is someone else's responsibility to give them paid work to do. I question this idea heavily.
                                    patrickrhone
                                      @glennf I don't think it is about laziness at all since, obviously, many of these people would like to *for* someone (usually at 40-80 hrs a week in the US). (cont.)
                                      glennf
                                        @patrickrhone Yes, you're asking a fundamental question. As an entrepreneur, I want to know, too, why people don't figure out how to profit from their own labor when no job is available. Although, one could argue that people do and it's off the radar.
                                        glennf
                                          @patrickrhone I would love to see how many "unemployed" people have cash businesses (whether legal or illegal) that produce more than a trickle of income. When I lived in Maine, even the employed people had two extra side jobs/professions.
                                          patrickrhone
                                            @glennf On the other hand, I wonder how many people understand that our labors, & the intelligence that fuel it, are really the only true capitol we have. That investing time and resources into such pays the greatest rewards. That *we* are the best option.
                                            patrickrhone
                                              @glennf Agreed. I think this is an untold part of the story. Especially of those who have lost work for so long that they are no longer being counted.
                                              glennf
                                                @patrickrhone You have a very thoughtful approach to this, which lacks a blame component. I like the questions you're asking. Why do people expect to be employed? That's a fundamental and interesting question.
                                                patrickrhone
                                                  @glennf Thanks. I'm currently writing a book about this and having a "blame" component would only bias it (not that this is not a bad thing either, just not quite there yet).
                                                  patrickrhone
                                                    @glennf That said, you really helped me condense and improve my thought pattern, "Why do people expect to be employed?" Thanks for that.
                                                    glennf
                                                      @patrickrhone It's probably easier now with very little capital, but with a *high* degree of knowledge (not book/academic kind) to reach an audience for things. But one has to have skills to make things. etc.
                                                      patrickrhone
                                                        @glennf But, here's the thing... Is that degree of knowledge really "high"? I wonder if it isn't and getting increasingly less so.
                                                        glennf
                                                          @patrickrhone It's ever lower. But think about selling on Etsy. You have to have a certain degree of literacy (which is affected by the state's commitment to educate you), a credit card, etc., just to get set up.
                                                          glennf
                                                            @patrickrhone And ten you have to have the skills to make or find things, package them, ship them out, and bear some cost of inventory and manufacture.
                                                            glennf
                                                              @patrickrhone I believe that it's been a tacit conspiracy (no volition, but it happened) to reduce hand skills and craft skills among general population. TV, mass production, etc., have led to that. But the reversal is happening.
                                                              glennf
                                                                @patrickrhone Broadcasting moving to YouTube and beyond narrowcasting. People knitting in crazy numbers. Etsy and eBay. Creativity needs a way out and cottage businesses are a great way to encourage practical creative expression.
                                                                hp
                                                                  @patrickrhone are you hinting at creating your own job rather than finding one?
                                                                  bigrb
                                                                    @hp @patrickrhone Creating your own job seems to be a theme of this discussion. I think it's a valid approach. If you watch the employment market closely, jobs are being created and destroyed very rapidly. Stability come when you take control.
                                                                    patrickrhone
                                                                      @hp I'm not hinting. I'm actively wondering why it is more people are not pursuing it.
                                                                      patrickrhone
                                                                        @glennf I am of like mind here. I also believe that there has been a tacit move thanks to industry/state/class warfare to create "cogs instead of motors" out of people. But I think the time/tech/opportunity is perfect right now for people to change that.
                                                                        patrickrhone
                                                                          @glennf And by "that" I mean all of it.
                                                                          curiak
                                                                            @patrickrhone I’m underemployed, and I want to start a tech consulting business. My problem is that I can’t afford to get the training and basic gear to get it off the ground in a meaningful way. I agree with the premise, but the execution can be tricky.
                                                                            There are 12 new posts
                                                                            johngordon
                                                                              @patrickrhone Conversely, why do Firms exist? Google "the theory of the firm". //@glennf
                                                                              johngordon
                                                                                @glennf I think it is useful to consider The nature of disability and the clearing price of labor. @patrickrhone
                                                                                hp
                                                                                  @bigrb @patrickrhone I completely agree. More and more people discover their passion and make it their living. Certainly the way to go in today's world.
                                                                                  fields
                                                                                    @patrickrhone @glennf I assume you've read Free Agent Nation?
                                                                                    jeffkirvin
                                                                                      @patrickrhone I think a lot of unemployment is due to holding out for a "real" job in one's chosen field and avoiding underemployment. Easier to find a tech job if you don't spend 35 hours a week at McDonald's.
                                                                                      patrickrhone
                                                                                        @curiak As someone who has a tech consulting business, I can tell you that it is possible. It just takes a lot of hard work and strategic planning. For instance, I chose many jobs for the purpose of giving me the training/skills I needed.
                                                                                        curiak
                                                                                          @patrickrhone I’m working on it; doing jobs for friends and family. Unfortunately, in this area I don’t have many employment options that build tech experience. I’m in school for computer science to train. You’re an inspiration for me as I work on it.
                                                                                          patrickrhone
                                                                                            @curiak Where are you located (if you don’t mind my asking).
                                                                                            curiak
                                                                                              @patrickrhone Not at all. I’m in the Daytona Beach area of Florida. We don’t have a Mac store inside an hour, and there aren’t really any ASPs either, so it’s a decent market, but there aren’t many tech companies either.
                                                                                              circa1977
                                                                                                @patrickrhone Debt serfdom imprisons people in status quo. (Read oftwominds.com.) Schools & business focused on groupthink, institutionalization. Bureaucracy, insurance costs make small biz too much overhead. (I have been solo/small biz for 6 years.)
                                                                                                patrickrhone
                                                                                                  @curiak Would you say: a) You know more than the average user, b) You are a natural troubleshooter, and c) You are a curious learner? Because if all of those fit you could hang up an open for business shingle today.
                                                                                                  patrickrhone
                                                                                                    @curiak Seriously, just be up front with people and have a willingness to help them find a solution even if you don't know it yourself right away. Sometimes, someone just needs a hand to hold to work through a problem.
                                                                                                    curiak
                                                                                                      @patrickrhone I would say yes to all three. I have experience as an electrician and home theater tech, so I have experience with on-th-job troubleshooting. I’m working on getting open right now actually. Just need to budget for a domain name. :)
                                                                                                      patrickrhone
                                                                                                        @curiak I tell people all the time when I don't know something and need to research it and get back to them (which I always make sure to do).
                                                                                                        curiak
                                                                                                          @patrickrhone I feel really comfortable with hardware issues, I’m just weak with Windows, and that will be something I have to take on a bit of. I’m not charging high rates, and I’ll work through anything eventually.
                                                                                                          curiak
                                                                                                            @patrickrhone Okay, I’ve had to do a bit of that, and they’ve been really understanding. I guess I don’t need all the answers right away. :P One service I’ve been thinking of offering is being on a small retainer and helping with app and OS updates.
                                                                                                            curiak
                                                                                                              @patrickrhone There’s a lot of older people around here, and I get the feeling a service like that would be rather helpful to some people.
                                                                                                              patrickrhone
                                                                                                                @curiak FYI: I rarely have to do Windows and am very clear with people that my knowledge in that department is high level only. I found a good PC guy who I gladly send them to for more than that. It is OK to specialize. Preferred even.
                                                                                                                curiak
                                                                                                                  @patrickrhone Ok. Given the market here I figured it would be necessary for a bit. My wife actually knows it fairly well and is willing to work on it for/with me. Partnering with a Windows shop might be a good way to get business through referrals though.
                                                                                                                  patrickrhone
                                                                                                                    @curiak I bet it would. I've been tossing the idea of subscription pricing around in my mind for years. Maybe such an offering would be a good fit for that.
                                                                                                                    patrickrhone
                                                                                                                      @curiak Boom! Now you are seeing the light.
                                                                                                                      curiak
                                                                                                                        @patrickrhone Haha, thanks! I’ve been looking at your consultants guide, and I want to get the certs, it just might take a while doing some small stuff to afford it. I’ve found one thing that people really want is buying advice, do you ever handle that?
                                                                                                                        patrickrhone
                                                                                                                          Anyone looking for my current advice/thinking/inspiration on being a tech consultant should see the conversation @curiak and I are having right now.
                                                                                                                          curiak
                                                                                                                            @patrickrhone Someone mentioned the idea to me and I thought it was a great fit. There are some people out there who will want a small amount of coaching & maintenance ever month, and it’s a source steadier income. Maybe include some troubleshooting too.
                                                                                                                            patrickrhone
                                                                                                                              @curiak All the time. Shoot me an email and I'll sent you my boilerplate TextExpander blurb that I send to people about saving money, etc on Apple stuff. Gives people lightbulb moments and makes you look like a wizard.
                                                                                                                              patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                @curiak I would not throw the troubleshooting in there without being real careful or making the price well worth such time.
                                                                                                                                patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                  @curiak I would treat such a service as a feeder into your more expensive hourly break/fix rate. But that might be just me.
                                                                                                                                  curiak
                                                                                                                                    @patrickrhone Thank you so much, sending it now! Thanks to my time as a home theater tech I might do some basic buying advice for that. It’s another passion of mine.
                                                                                                                                    curiak
                                                                                                                                      @patrickrhone That’s true. I don’t want to throw my time away. I might treat it like an hour of my time a month and price it accordingly. Then do updates, training, or troubleshooting as the customer needs. That way I’m not losing my shirt.
                                                                                                                                      curiak
                                                                                                                                        @patrickrhone I’d include in the contract that longer jobs, or more involved ones will trigger my higher rates. So if they just renamed their Home folder, I can handle that, but if they fried a drive I’m not fixing that for free.
                                                                                                                                        stacy
                                                                                                                                          @patrickrhone Enjoying the convo between you and @curiak. I am a one-man Mac consultant just getting started in Texas, would much appreciate the TextExpander blurb you mention ... thanks for the valuable dialogue here. (I just joined ADN tonight)
                                                                                                                                          curiak
                                                                                                                                            @patrickrhone I know most people are scared of being out on their own, for me, I'm scared of not starting out right. My father has run an electrical contracting business for years, so owning a business has been the family ethic. Thank you for the advice.
                                                                                                                                            patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                              @stacy You should shoot me an email to patrick@patrickrhone.com and I'll share it with you too.
                                                                                                                                              patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                @curiak You've got the right idea.
                                                                                                                                                patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                  @stacy @curiak You two should follow and get to know each other. One of the best ways to level up as a Mac Consultant is by knowing others you can call on for support/advice/have-you-seen-this-crazy-issue-too? sorts of things.
                                                                                                                                                  patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                    @curiak It has been my pleasure (and, I'm about to turn a lot of it into a blog post to help others as well).
                                                                                                                                                    stacy
                                                                                                                                                      @patrickrhone @curiak Good idea. I am going to the MacTech conference in Dallas this coming week - my first such event. Hope to learn a few things and make some friends.
                                                                                                                                                      patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                        @stacy @curiak Having chaired one of those myself I can tell you for sure that it is a fantastic resource and well worth your time. Highly recommended. Bring lots of business cards and to share and make friends. It will pay off greatly.
                                                                                                                                                        chartier
                                                                                                                                                          @patrickrhone @curiak any chance you could wrap that conversation together in a Storify or blog post(s)? Cuz I be interestimatated in that.
                                                                                                                                                          patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                            @chartier Do you know of a way I can link to/show just the posts relevant to the specific "consulting" part of the conversation? It stemmed off of my earlier "unemployment" post and I'd like to isolate it.
                                                                                                                                                            curiak
                                                                                                                                                              @patrickrhone @stacy For sure! Mac consulting looks to be a lonely business around here so I welcome the chance to meet people online! I’m @curiak on Twitter too by the way.
                                                                                                                                                              curiak
                                                                                                                                                                @patrickrhone Awesome! My wife and I are expecting a baby any day, so if I can take the chance and do it, I hope I can help others along the way. Money’s tight, so anything I can do to bring in money is important. I can’t afford to NOT do this. Literally.
                                                                                                                                                                curiak
                                                                                                                                                                  @bmike I’m on Twitter with the same username, and my blog is at http://hackerfrog.tumblr.com/
                                                                                                                                                                  bmike
                                                                                                                                                                    @curiak awesome. Will check it out.
                                                                                                                                                                    curiak
                                                                                                                                                                      @bmike Cool! There’s not much there yet, but I’m working on a post about my frustrations with the state of task management.
                                                                                                                                                                      tofias
                                                                                                                                                                        @patrickrhone @glennf I'm getting a total John Locke 2013 vibe here.
                                                                                                                                                                        davemurf
                                                                                                                                                                          @curiak @patrickrhone @stacy Thank you for the inspiration, gents!
                                                                                                                                                                          davemurf
                                                                                                                                                                            @curiak @patrickrhone @stacy I to am trying to start something similar in my area, but I work for Apple. Great experience, but I have to leave that before I start consulting to avoid conflict. This conversation makes me feel much better about my chances!
                                                                                                                                                                            peroty
                                                                                                                                                                              @patrickrhone @stacy @curiak No one knows everything. It’s so important to have a trusted place to reach out to for help. Whether that be Mac/PC or just technical help. techhnibble.com had a fantastic forum for techs. They’d love some more Mac guys.
                                                                                                                                                                              peroty
                                                                                                                                                                                @patrickrhone @stacy @curiak There’s a lot of give and take there and in most if the tech support / customer service industry. The hardest part is finding those trusted people to call upon.
                                                                                                                                                                                stacy
                                                                                                                                                                                  @peroty @patrickrhone @curiak Thanks Carl. I will check into the site. (FYI, there was an extra ‘h’ in your link, in case anyone else hits the dead URL.)
                                                                                                                                                                                  peroty
                                                                                                                                                                                    @stacy Thanks. Technibble.com is correct. At least until the Minimal Mac Consultant Network is setup. ;) @patrickrhone @curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                    stacy
                                                                                                                                                                                      @peroty @patrickrhone @curiak Seriously, when is that MMCN thing going to get rolling? We have work to do.
                                                                                                                                                                                      curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                        @stacy @peroty @patrickrhone Thanks for the link! Seriously, that could be nice for pooling knowledge.
                                                                                                                                                                                        heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                          @glennf @patrickrhone I think there are both practical (read Barbara Ehernreich’s Nickeled and Dimed) and psychological components as well as privilege all playing their part
                                                                                                                                                                                          heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                            @glennf @patrickrhone How do you know you *can* do something? Why is “cup is to saucer” a biased SAT question? Exposure & empowerment pretty key.
                                                                                                                                                                                            heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                              @glennf @patrickrhone I cannot tell you both, writers that you are for example, how deep “No one gives a shit about what I have to say” can run in ppl. So then why bother?
                                                                                                                                                                                              glennf
                                                                                                                                                                                                @heathr @patrickrhone Fundamentally great question. Also, why do people buy things? One makes things and hopes people buy them. Do we make them well? Who judges that?
                                                                                                                                                                                                heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                  @glennf @patrickrhone also, nerds often failed at the created social order young (my play “Cookie” covers this) & it’s gift is that you *know* some institutions aren’t inevitable but created
                                                                                                                                                                                                  glennf
                                                                                                                                                                                                    @heathr @patrickrhone My wife just pointed out, too: you can't claim unemployment insurance if you're starting a company or a freelance career. Only if you're looking for work!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                      @glennf @patrickrhone also why sell some things and not give them ? ie child care, food, how to bake, meeting friends / dates all were things that were not primarily businesses in our culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                      heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                        @glennf @patrickrhone what happens when you sell? Do Yu know / have access / get listened to by people with $ to sell to?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                          @glennf @patrickrhone I grew up in small town w small biz in Jewish shtetl and selling to people could also make you even more “not one of them”
                                                                                                                                                                                                          heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                            @glennf @patrickrhone I remember v clearly renting a little toy I had on a school bus trip v young to my classmates and feeling immediately how that changed things
                                                                                                                                                                                                            heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                              @glennf @patrickrhone it is also v hard if self-employed to get health insurance in CA at least that covers 100% of costs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                @glennf @patrickrhone I have been. Inspired by patrick’s approach to work online. Bc your tone and consistency are humanistic it’s made me much more serious about planning to ask for $ for my work onlin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                danielgenser
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @glennf That’s the transition I posted about yesterday. What if state unemployment programs helped people get started with their own business instead of pushing people into underemployment? /cc @heathr @patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  johngordon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @danielgenser I did a blog post a few years ago on that idea. Automated startups as part of job support. Obamacare helps. //@glennf @heathr @patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @patrickrhone I thought of an addition for the post: When to get business licenses, incorporate, hire an accountant, and hire a lawyer. I know it’s possible to get started without some of that, but what’s the threshold in your opinion? //@stacy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      patrickrhone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @curiak Ooh, that is a good one. Also, tricky, as it might vary from state-to-state with the legal stuff. Let me see what I can do. Might be an addition for tomorrow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @patrickrhone That could be really tricky. Maybe just touch on the not legally essential stuff like an accountant and lawyer and explain why they’re so helpful. Not all people will know that. I’d be curious to hear about time tracking and billing too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stacy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @curiak I use Billings for invoicing and some timekeeping. It’s OK, can’t say that I am crazy about it but that may be my fault for not spending more time with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @stacy Good to know! I’ll try that once I get some cashflow going.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @glennf @patrickrhone? missed something in the thread. 102?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @glennf ha ha ha ! I grew up in a super weird place and time. A tiny tiny Jewish community in Niagara Falls Canada that pretty much stuck to itself. My grandparents had some convenience stores.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  glennf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @heathr Fascinating! Did you have a shmatta man? Cory Doctorow's parents were communists in Canada and he went to Yiddish day school, if I recall correctly. Josh Malina (whose sister I know, but didn't know him at Yale) grew up with Yiddish in house.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      @glennf My grandpa was a shattered guy in the big city where Cory lived. My great-grandparents spoke mostly Yiddish, grandparent and uncle cd too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      danielgenser
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        @johngordon Brilliant article, John. It's a huge blind spot. For all the talk about employers taking adding jobs to the economy, there's surprisingly little attention paid to how normal people can create their own jobs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          @glennf oy! Autocorrect! Shmatte guy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          glennf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @heathr All makes sense! I thought you might have meant shabbes goy, but that didn't make any sense at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            heathr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              @glennf iPhone autocorrect will become (or “Evonne”) it’s own language
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              johngordon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                @danielgenser Thanks Daniel. I'm surprised I don't see more along the lines of those articles. I'm sure others have proposed similar things, but I've had a hard time finding 'em.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mpacer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @curiak @patrickrhone I’d be interested in hearing how that goes. Many blogs cover help for those in the know, but thats not where the biggest gains live… few focus on —and you’ll either love or hate this, but— on helping the scales fall from people’s eyes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  curiak
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    @mpacer @patrickrhone I agree. I don’t know why most people in this space focus on higher level users, but I find it’s actually far more difficult, and in some cases rewarding, to help people see the friction in their lives and help fix it.