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clarkgoble
    @johngordon that Vox guy is who comes to mind. I should have favored names as I encountered them
    clarkgoble
      @johngordon @duerig Wonder how many that is true of. I’ve seen it going other way. People who tried just using phone and/or tablet and found they needed laptop. Of course I’m hardly representative.
      clarkgoble
        @johngordon Pro leave side were pretty dishonest too and primarily targeted fear and xenophobia. But EU has lots of problems it’s hard not to see.
        clarkgoble
          @johngordon The pro-EU side’s argument reduced to “short term economic costs” and “you’re all racists if you don’t support us.” That’s not a compelling argument against widespread discontentment.
          clarkgoble
            @johngordon If I were Germany I’d be very worried this is a sign of widespread European discontentment with the EU. Think I linked to this Pew poll already. http://pewrsr.ch/28Y9c5q While rest aren’t as bad as UK lots in Sweden and other countries angry.
            clarkgoble
              @johngordon I’d have still voted to stay due to short term economic hit. But honestly those pro-EU sure did a poor job selling it or answering complaints.
              clarkgoble
                @johngordon Yes, I know people are blaming non-London English masses for Brexit but honestly the EU was a mess with lots of bad policy and apparently no inclination to fix any of it. Again, what major post ’08 reforms passed?
                clarkgoble
                  @johngordon However many of those on Twitter saying these things are influential at various media or activism organizations.
                  clarkgoble
                    @duerig What is T issues? Terrorism? I think the concern was that it wasn’t turning to T issues then.
                    clarkgoble
                      Why current British plan makes little sense → This. https://t.co/F4saGLkpy5 https://t.co/816doZF2MO
                      clarkgoble
                        @duerig That’s a good point although the way it has been done (say in Libya) has been unfortunate (IMO). Even if you wanted to act in Libya I’m not sure tying NATO to it was wise.
                        clarkgoble
                          @duerig Although I suspect Realists overestimate role in antagonizing Putin. I think Putin would have wanted expanse of USSR back just out of romantic nostalgia.
                          clarkgoble
                            @duerig I think NATO expansion was unnecessary and partially led to Putin situation of the last decade.
                            clarkgoble
                              @duerig I think it’s less worry about *confiscation* than it is memory of Clinton’s Crime Bill as it affected guns. Don’t think left appreciates how that really galvanized issue for many (not just on right)
                              clarkgoble
                                @duerig …may mean it grows in background much like populism on right started as much against Bush as anything.
                                clarkgoble
                                  @duerig It leaves me very depressed for the republic as I think we need good thorough intellectual debate. This populist turn is very dangerous. At least Ds got HRC to be likely president to tap it down. Although fact it’s a controversial person like her…
                                  clarkgoble
                                    @duerig Yes both right and left are very focused on hitting emotional angles. Intellectual argument on right is largely dead thanks to Trump and Cruz. Only few in conservative press still do it. I’m seeing same thing on left now.
                                    clarkgoble
                                      @duerig That’s a good point I hadn’t thought about. There really wasn’t a big fight. So most opposition is just at state level. (Much like GOP has clearly signaled they don’t want abortion fights at federal level)
                                      clarkgoble
                                        @duerig @oluseyi http://bit.ly/28Y3ErE (Just found picture with Google — not endorsing site it’s on)