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@chartier and their devices have gotten uglier. The DS lite was the best one. Then they just made it horrible 3D, and bigger. Nothing new and nothing good.
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@zero “sucks” is relative. I think it’s easy to say it is way behind, especially when it comes to the display and the resistive touch screen. I would like a bigger, nicer display and much better online services. I want the App Store.
@chiefsucker @gm @chartier I disagree, I think it's a pretty clever game design, but the important part is that it's an entire genre that Nintendo is incapable of shipping. Nintendo has tons of weak-sauce casual games, just like iOS.
@chartier I disagree. People still buy GPS devices for their bike. They have a better battery life, are smaller and lighter. You need your phone, and nothing sucks more than an empty battery. We aren’t there yet and it needs a technological revolution.
@chiefsucker @gm @chartier All those hidden object games rely on touch + retina, Minecraft PE (I can't stand PE survival, but in creative it's amazing), Blockheads. Tiny Towers, Pocket Planes, Happy Street, etc., which are pure digital crack.
@chiefsucker @gm @chartier There's a bunch of adventure games like Lili, Sam & Max, Walking Dead, LEGO. Some are on other platforms, but very different with touch controls.
@mdhughes Sure, these are some pretty good examples for games that excel on iOS. But my point is still valid. I still didn’t find a game on iOS that was as great and long as BioShock or as fun as Mario.
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@chiefsucker I don’t think coming in here and insulting someone is the way to get them to see your viewpoint. Just because my opinion of what makes a game great is different from yours, doesn’t make it a “low standard”.
@gm @mdhughes
@chiefsucker I also didn’t say that it was as engaging as Zelda, but it is an iOS exclusive that moves significant numbers of units.
The Infinity Blade series has turned more profit for Epic than Gears of War.
@gm @mdhughes
@zepfhyr You just don’t care as much about games and that’s OK. I didn’t insult you. I have low standards in other areas (hence I’m the casual audience in those). Tastes are different, but Zelda is a masterpiece.
@zepfhyr That's astounding. I wonder what the profit ratios are. @chiefsucker @gm @mdhughes
@chiefsucker I disagree that I don’t care as much about games. I am an adult and a father with bills to pay, so I am choosier about how and where I spend my gaming dollars. But that doesn’t mean I care less.
@zepfhyr I don’t care about unit sales, profits or politics. I just want a great game.
@chiefsucker Your argument implies that your opinion on games is superior to mine, which is the offensive part of that statement.
@chiefsucker I am a long-time gamer that has transitioned from the NES and GameBoy to SNES to N64/VirtualBoy to GameCube/GBA to Wii/DS and now to Wii U and iOS.
@chiefsucker Not to mention my time spent with the Xbox, 360, PS2, and Dreamcast.
I love great games as much as the next guy, but trying to convince me to buy a $180 handheld on TOP of my iPhone is a difficult proposition.
@chriskrycho I’m not sure. I just remember their press release about it a while back. It was crazy.
@chiefsucker @gm @mdhughes
@chiefsucker Actually, it does. You saying you didn’t mean to, doesn’t change what it implies. You can say that you never meant to imply it (which you did), but you need to choose your words more carefully to avoid coming off as smug in the future.
@chiefsucker Sorry, that “(which you did)” is referring to you saying you never meant to imply it. Not saying that you DID mean to imply it.
@zepfhyr And then you compare Infinite Blade (which is grind-heavy, very focused on gameplay-wise cheap QTEs) to Zelda? Come on, it’s a lot of fun and great to spend some time, but it’s nowhere nearly as great as Zelda (even if you don’t like Zelda).
@chiefsucker I compared Infinity Blade to Zelda NOT for its gameplay, but because it is an iOS exclusive that drives sales.
I already pointed that out, btw. You just said you weren’t interested in politics, profit, or unit sales.
@zepfhyr I still disagree. Having lower standards isn’t an insult and doesn’t even mean that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop reading too much into this and cool down, please.
@chiefsucker I’ve not once said that any game on iOS is comparable to Zelda in terms of gameplay quality. What I did say is that games on iOS are getting better fast. I believe someone COULD make a compelling alternative to Zelda and Mario for iOS.
@chiefsucker I’m completely calm. But you can’t dismiss someone’s reaction to your words because you don’t like it. That’s not how the world works.
When you say something ignorant, you either apologize and move on or you defend yourself foolishly.
@chiefsucker At the moment, you’re choosing the latter, which is only further serving my point that you a) insulted me by proclaiming yourself as having superior taste in games and b) refuse to acknowledge the fact that you put your foot in your mouth.
@chiefsucker Especially since you continue to say that I have lower standards because they don’t mesh with your own. Further, you keep assuming that I said something I didn’t (that IB is as good as Zelda), which is your basis for your initial statement.
@zepfhyr Think what you want to think. I already said that you interpreted too much into my words and I can’t do more. Some people think it’s an insult when you say they look good instead of great. It’s a problem of the receiver, not the sender.
@chiefsucker I get that you don’t like being called out on insulting someone (even accidentally), but saying someone has “lower standards” in any category is a surefire way to start a fight.
I’m simply trying to educate you in proper etiquette.
@chiefsucker Yes, which I clarified by saying it’s an exclusive title that moves units, is waited on heavily by iOS users, and is synonymous with gaming on iOS.
I apologize that it wasn’t in the first post. 256 character limit, and all.
@chiefsucker What I THINK is that you took something I said about one game, responded to it with a knee-jerk, holier-than-thou reaction to it, and are now trying to backpedal when you realized that you came off as arrogant.
@chiefsucker “I also didn’t say that it was as engaging as Zelda, but it is an iOS exclusive that moves significant numbers of units.”
I wrote that when I realized that my IB is Zelda for iOS line was misunderstood, btw. Two posts later.
@zepfhyr No, I’m not back-pedaling. Let’s at least agree that written communication is sometimes troublesome and can be misunderstood by both ends, OK?
@zepfhyr Great. So let’s move on. Do you think that Nintendo and Apple can peacefully coexist by targeting different audiences and that Nintendo doesn’t have to be in trouble just because iOS flourishes?
@chiefsucker Yes. At the moment. But I’m in the minority. I seek quality gameplay, not the most beautiful graphics. But a growing majority of players today don’t agree, and the DS does NOT have the hardware to push great graphics.
@chiefsucker Which means that Nintendo has to truly push the OTHER aspects of their hardware to make sure that their gameplay remains more compelling than gameplay on other devices.
@zepfhyr True, but the gaming market expanded thanks to iOS and got a lot of new people who don’t care that much about the next AAA title or great indie game. It would be interesting to know how the core gamer market changed since iOS games got popular.
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@chiefsucker That may not be possible in 2 years when Made for iPhone controllers are in more consumers’ hands.
With an MFi controller, my iPad will be the most portable console ever. And the rate at which Apple’s hardware advances, everyone’s in trouble.
@chiefsucker Those stats would certainly help determine if Nintendo is in danger. We know that Nintendo is still making money. They’re not likely making as much as they were pre-iPhone, but the economy also tanked at roughly the same time.
@chiefsucker But, like I said before, many gamers that can’t afford a dedicated gaming system and already have an iPhone are choosing to buy games on iOS over DS. I did so for Square-Enix’s releases.
@zepfhyr The other thing that could change the market is a publisher who would make the next Mass Effect or BioShock for iOS. I don’t see it coming in the next 2–3 years. They’ll milk the F2P cow first.
@chiefsucker GTA: Chinatown Wars is another DS title that I skipped, but snapped up on iOS.
I think that the real danger to Nintendo is the change from core gamers asking for games from their parents to having to buy them themselves.
@zepfhyr The other question is: Would these gamers buy a dedicated gaming system in the first place? Because that’s what a lot of people assume in this discussion. I’m not so sure about it.
@chiefsucker True. And I could see a publisher doing something like that should MFi controllers become popular enough that they think they could penetrate the market.
Or if AppleTV gets gaming support.
@chiefsucker Many iOS users likely have not bought a dedicated gaming system since they were children (if ever). But I firmly believe that there are a number out there like me that used to buy dedicated handhelds, but can’t justify the cost at the moment.
@chiefsucker The other big advantage that iOS has over the DS is in games that are iPad-exclusive. Those games are often taking market share from PC games (like Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition) and Bastion (which was a late port, but still awesome).
@chiefsucker There’s even a Deus Ex game for iOS that is considered the fourth game in the canon. It’s coming to Android, too, but not to consoles/PCs.
@chiefsucker Also, they’re not as robust as their console counterparts, but there are Dead Space and Mass Effect games for iOS.
Mass Effect plays like a shooter, but both are very similar to what I think equivalent games would be like on any portable.
@zepfhyr I enjoyed GTA:CW on the big iPad screen, but the virtual d-pad kind of ruined the experience for me. The screen and graphics quality didn’t outweigh the worse gameplay.
@chiefsucker They actually kind of remind me of GameBoy Advanced versions of GameCube titles back in the day. More of a side story rather than the actual game, but still compelling games either way.
@chiefsucker I didn’t play on iPad, but on my iPhone. I’ve found that virtual d-pads work much better on the smaller screen, unless too much of the gameplay is obscured (which didn’t seem to be the case for me).
I think the iPad mini is the perfect size.
@chiefsucker I’ve also spent a rather significant chunk of my time playing the Chaos Rings series on my iPhone and iPad. While the first one was nowhere near as robust as some classic Square-Enix titles, Chaos Rings 2 was a superb game for ANY system.
@zepfhyr The Vita demonstrates that you can make home console-quality titles on a portable, not just worse mobile equivalents with often dumbed down gameplay. There’s a huge difference between NFS: Most Wanted on iOS and the Wii U/Xbox 360/PS3/Vita.
@chiefsucker I can’t speak to that, as I don’t really like most EA games anymore, so I only got Most Wanted when it was free and haven’t played it much.
I quite loved the Real Racing series before EA bought it, though.
@chiefsucker I think another frustrating issue here is that games on iOS are tending toward F2P, whereas DS games remain a buy-once, play forever ordeal. That’s my preferred method, but devs are afraid to take that risk on iOS (except for Square-Enix).
@zepfhyr Me too. They really took it too far with Real Racing 2. But they did a good job with PvZ 2, which is also a perfect example for a game that works better on iOS. I don’t think that Nintendo can compete in that part of the market, although they try.
@chiefsucker I assume you meant Real Racing 3, since 2 was before the EAcquisition (see what I did there?).
Strategy games are where I feel that iOS truly shines. Anything that is primarily mouse driven, but not hectic (like, say, Starcraft).
@zepfhyr Yes, but there’s a lot of money for huge publishers in the F2P and P2W market on iOS just because the install base is so huge compared to *any* other device. And the expectations got already lowered, people want to play for free.
@chiefsucker Indeed. I think that developers that want to provide a higher caliber of game and that are willing to settle for fewer (but “better”) customers can still make AAA-caliber titles on iOS.
Sadly, most don’t make it that far before they bankrupt.
@zepfhyr Yes, sorry, I meant Real Racing 3.
Can you recommend any good strategy games on the iPad that are a little bit deeper and more engaging („SC2 for the iPad“)?
@chiefsucker Sorry, I got pulled away.
What’s your preferred style of strategy? Tactics-style, Squad-based, or what?
@zepfhyr Something like the old Command & Conquer RTS games, or SC, or Total Annihilation with a breeze of fresh gameplay air and touch controls, of course.
@chiefsucker Well, RTS games are harder to come by, since most are just StarCraft clones (like Starfront: Collision - http://j.mp/1fwEvMh).
There’s also Warfare Incorporated (more like C&C), but it’s iPhone only: http://j.mp/17BSHRb
@chiefsucker Robocalypse is another one that’s pretty cool, though it’s less complex than say C&C or SC: http://j.mp/175FVeS
There’s a free version, too, to check out. It’s based on an NDS game, so you may have already played it.
@chiefsucker I was literally just about to send you a link to Autumn Dynasty. I haven’t played it myself, but it looks like it’s much more robust than any of the others:
http://j.mp/15vx8pw
@wickedgood @chiefsucker I read about that recently, but haven’t played it. It’s on my wish list, so I’ll probably get it eventually, once I finish more of my other games.
@zepfhyr I’ll probably try it out. Robocalypse looks like Z. That’s good.
@chiefsucker As for TBS, XCOM is considered flawless: http://j.mp/18oJkV2
And Breach & Clear is a good, cheaper alternative: http://j.mp/17x7Q8q
Also, Baldur’s Gate: EE is pretty sweet, though less strategy and more RPG: http://j.mp/17BUhmg
@zepfhyr Thanks for all recommendations. That’s probably enough to keep me busy until next year.
@chiefsucker And if you want to try something that’s a bit different from the traditional RTS and TBS games, you should check out Ace Patrol: http://j.mp/1fwG6S4 and Plague Inc.: http://j.mp/1dLBJXP
@chiefsucker No problem. Enjoy!
Oh, I almost forgot one. It’s F2P, but if you’re a fan of Heroes of Might & Magic (or the King’s Bounty series), you should check out King’s Bounty: Legions: http://j.mp/1eb3qHd
Okay, NOW I’m done. :-D
@chiefsucker Btw, Gruber is still beating the “Nintendo needs to make iOS games” drum, though this time he did make two very good points: Nintendo could make an iOS-exclusive game as an experiment for $15-$20 and it would sell like hotcakes.
@chiefsucker He recommended “Mario Kart Touch”, which would be a huge success at whatever price point they chose. But that they should continue making their own hardware, but that their next-gen handheld should compete on specs with a 2015 iPhone.
@chiefsucker The second point is the one with which I agree. If people are being asked to carry a second device, the second device needs to provide something (other than physical controls) that makes it worth carrying (beefier battery, visuals, etc).
@chiefsucker The more time passes, the less important physical controls becomes as a differentiator, especially if 3rd-party devs begin bringing their games to iOS sooner (or worse, first).